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Just-in-Time (JIT) is a manufacturing methodology aimed primarily at reducing times within the production system as well as response times from suppliers and to customers. These same principles of driving efficiency and reducing response times can be applied to training.

Why not change the mindset of how digital training is delivered so you can provide the right content to the learner, when they need it, just in time. A mobile-first strategy in training delivery allows for online, self-paced training. But digital training extends beyond just making content available online. In this session, we will uncover the instructional design, adult learning theory, and SAAS, subscription-based mentality for developing and delivering Just-In-Time training.

About the Visiting Dojo Expert

Aaron MurrayAaron Murray. As Director of Customer Engagement and Training at Ken Cook Co., Aaron orchestrates the development and implementation of training solutions for marine, automotive and manufacturing clients, including Bobcat Company, Volvo Cars, Genie® – Terex Corporation and BoatU.S. He has also managed the development of content-rich training documentation for Yamaha Motors. His motto is: “Never build bad training.” Aaron knows that the one-size-fits-all “checkbox training” that’s typically delivered on PowerPoint® slides is what gives e-learning a bad rap. Aaron believes in delivering custom, interactive and engaging training that considers the view of the user. He has spent his time at Ken Cook Co. assembling and directing a creative team of developers, instructional designers, content writers and graphic designers to build living educational ecosystems that truly adapt to the ever-changing needs of learners and that evolve along with the content.

Aaron has 20 years of experience supporting and implementing software systems and is well known in the industry for his work in customer engagement and digital media. Previously he implemented training for such companies as Apple and Crocs, Inc. and for the small start-up Envisiontel. He also started Dividedby9, a consulting company that trained staff at various businesses to provide premium customer service. Aaron has implemented Learning Management Systems (LMS) in 29 countries and 9 different languages and has supported clients in China, Japan, Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Indonesia and the United States of America (USA).

Connect with him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theguyinthehat/

Watch the Video

Recorded: 25 January 2021

Transcript (Expand to View)

[00:00:00.120] - Liz Fraley

Welcome to the TC Dojo from Single-Sourcing Solutions. TC Dojo is a Tech-comm community that is driven by you. Tell us what you want to learn, you choose the topics and we find the experts. In the open session today, we have Aaron Murray. Aaron is the Director of Customer Engagement and Training at Ken Cook Company. Over the last 20 years, he's orchestrated the development and implementation of training solutions for a wide variety of industries and customers in 9 different languages in dozens of countries. His Motto is Never Build Bad Training, you can deliver custom, interactive and engaging training that considers the view of the user.

[00:00:38.700] - Liz Fraley

I met Aaron in an STC conference we had back-to-back sessions and happened to be in the other session as well. I learned a lot and had a great time learning. I'm delighted he's able to share his insights into training and learning in the Dojo today. Now, he says you can ask questions as we go, so be sure to type them in when you think of them so you don't forget what you wanted to ask. Welcome Aaron, I'll pass control.

[00:01:01.650] - Aaron Murray

Sounds good, thank you Liz, alright give me one second here.

[00:01:11.540] - Liz Fraley


[00:01:16.560] - Aaron Murray

Okay, so yeah any time if you have any questions, please feel free to put them into the comments and I'll stop and pause. I do have quite a bit to go over, so I am going to focus on 3 key topics. We are going to talk about Augmented Reality a little bit, we're going to talk about VR a little bit, we're going to talk about Mobile Strategies and a little bit about Voice Assistance as well. So let me get started here again, like you said before, I am Aaron and also known as the guy in the hat. To be honest, I like to tell a little bit about myself before we kind of really get into things because the story is important to why I got into this space to begin with.

[00:01:53.070] - Aaron Murray

I got diagnosed with Dyslexia at my second year of college. I was a horrible student throughout most of high school and most of grade school, and when I was taking a composition speech class, I had a professor that came up to me and said, you know he's like does -- have you ever been diagnosed with any kind of learning disability? And shortly thereafter, he brought me into a lab to get tested and go through some different things. And I was diagnosed shortly thereafter.

[00:02:18.030] - Aaron Murray

And what I realized is that the current educational system and the way we think of education may not be built the way that it needs to be done today. It really hasn't really been evolving that well. I mean this is a perfect example of Covid that's currently happening and the amount of people that are looking at education now through zoom or other ways, but how do you do it correctly not necessarily how you just get it done. One of the things I like to bring up is this Albert Einstein quote, which is "The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education".

[00:02:49.060] - Aaron Murray

And this kind of hits home to me so much because of my learning disability is that I was taught a certain way, I kept on getting told this is the way you have to learn, what I have to learn. But the truth is, I wasn't learning those things, but the things I was passionate about or things that I wanted to take my own personal time and the best in, I'm with the things that kind of hit and worked well for me. So with me being diagnosed with Dyslexia, I decided to really get involved in understanding how to better educate other people. How could I better educate not just simply myself, but other people the way that I need to be educated and things like that. So, some of the things I started learning about where things about like passive and active education. So it kind of gets broken down into two groups, like I said passive and active. And in the passive side, it's really those people that are -- what you read, how much retention you're going to get after about two weeks of information. So if you read a book or read material, the chances of your retention is going to be about 10% of what you had after two weeks. If you hear it, so from a verbal conversation, it's about 20% after two weeks. I'm seeing it, so seeing a presentation again, these are all the functions that happen in the average school system as these kind of things, read this book, listen to this, watch this presentation, 30%

[00:04:03.510] - Aaron Murray

And then you have those people that are a little more of that interactive, so watching a movie, maybe there's more demonstration, seeing more things that happen in a live standpoint, which is about 50%, which is a much higher percentage. Now in the industry that I'm in, we work mostly with heavy equipment automotive in the Marine Industry. So a lot of technicians, a lot of operators and things like that from a training standpoint. So what we wanted to do is we wanted to take a look at the current classroom and how it's currently structured and see how can we move it from a passive style to an active style. And the active style is going to be more of that physical thing you do when I actually get my hands on it, when I'm actually doing something or when I'm actually learning how to give the presentation myself. So as an example, I'm educating myself more right now than anybody that's sitting out in the audience because I am the one actually giving the discussion, giving the talk, giving the information out there. So my retention is going be higher than anybody else out there, obviously.

[00:04:56.840] - Aaron Murray

So from the -- one of the things we started doing is we started evaluating classrooms themselves, so we took about 20 different classrooms from again, from the automotive heavy machinery and the Marine Industry and said okay, how are you guys currently structuring classrooms? And out of 20 different companies that deliver their classroom structure, we said -- we realized that it's almost always the same, slight difference and variance depending on the company, but it's about the same. In a classroom structure where there's somebody sitting in front of a PowerPoint, giving a lecture, going through different things, and people are sitting there taking down notes or writing out information, about 70% of the time was actually spent in the classroom. The actual physical time they actually got their hands on things was about 25%

[00:05:42.530] - Aaron Murray

So it's actually where they are working on a car or a boat or getting their hands physically on a piece of equipment was about 25% of the time. And then about 5% of the time, were spent doing tests and things like that, basic evaluation information. And you know again, that was universal throughout almost every single group we saw, hence begin the current structure we currently have, but again like we talked about the passive style really isn't really that beneficial. So we really want to try to hit on that active style so how do we get more of that physical presence? How do I get to show what I'm currently doing? How do I get to demonstrate what I'm actually putting on and put that out there? So with that active style presence, the current classroom again, in the current breakdown of 25% really was a lot less so when you actually got your hands on in the current classroom training for an environment, that 25% really as you start separating out into each individual, ended up being about 3% to 8%

[00:06:40.550] - Aaron Murray

And the reason behind that is because again if you've got a classroom, you got one boat or one car that you're trying to give this information to, is you're really only giving one person at a time possibly with an instructor to go over this one piece and everybody gets to watch it and see what's happening again, so there is  some retention, but it's not really experiencing the way it probably should be done. So again, how do we make this better, what do we need to do? So we said okay let's just find out what these people are currently doing when they actually get out into the field. So once they've finished a large class and they've done something they've now become a certified technician as an example and they get back out in the field, what do they actually re-calling? What are they getting? And the truth is, we found out that the information that they're currently getting is out of date, it's on a printed book, possibly in a manual that's in there it's not necessarily up to date, they may have to ask others if they're lucky enough to be in a place or location or shop that has other people that have been there for a long time, to be honest the number one ways that we found people getting their answers though, were through Google and YouTube, people just doing a search of how do I fix this piece of equipment, how do I get this done correctly?

[00:07:45.410] - Aaron Murray

And I myself personally use this my wash --

[00:07:52.920] - Liz Fraley

oh, oh.

[00:07:54.810] - Aaron Murray

-- Following the instructions, I was able to fix the problem. Now the problem there is that especially with a corporation is that you may be giving out information you're now hopefully getting the information that's correct. Here at Ken Cook, we get to work with a company that does kitchen equipment and things like that, and so gas and things like that were involved. And we had a gentleman that unfortunately got hurt because he simply Google searched how to actually fix out the specific burner for this industrial kitchen, he got really hurt badly because the person that was giving the YouTube instruction missed a giant step that was from a safety standpoint. So again, it's important to make sure that the OEMs or that the companies out there put out the materials the way that they need to and make sure that's safe, effective and from the voice of that customer.

[00:08:47.910] - Aaron Murray

So from that day being standard at that standpoint,  we started looking at okay, what does that blended learning approach really need to be? So we can watch it, we can listen to it, we can play it, we can read it right, and then kind of merging it all together into like a blended learning style. Now, at Ken Cook our solution is really more looking at how people are going to be getting this piece of equipment and how are they going to be getting the answers to this. And again, we saw most people just simply using their phones. They were literally working on a car, or a boat, or an engine or something like that, and they'd go to their phone and Google search what they were looking for. So the goal would be to start with a mobile first strategy, start putting in your information and make sure it's readable within a mobile documentation strategy. So how do you do that? How do you actually put that together? How does that get assembled? Now, the reason behind that is it allows more availability for recalling the information when you're back on the job. So again, if you put it together, you build out that structure the way you need to as your company does. You can now get back out there and you're giving them those answers in that specific environment. So now they can Google search or reference the material and find it the way that you have designed it to put it out there.

[00:09:56.190] - Aaron Murray

Now, that blended classroom with the companies that we work again from a heavy equipment automotive marine standpoint is a little bit different. So here's the blended strategy that we use. So it's about utilizing the actual location and not the classroom. So the goal is actually you terminate the classroom altogether. There's no need for everybody to sit in front of a PowerPoint and do those type of things. You can actually give people devices like the iPhone or an iPad or there's tons of Android devices out there that are very inexpensive as well, where you can give them that information, where it has all the structured information, it has the lectures already built into it, so you can still go there and  give that same information in a structured way, but now it's available to them when they specifically need it. And what you do is you change your classroom to really talk about it from a Just-In-Time standpoint. So you can now have this gentleman over here, he's working on the front part of the loader here, and it's giving the equipment an information that's specifically on that topic. This gentleman is inside looking maybe in the pit, maybe working at understanding the components with inside the the piece of equipment.

[00:11:01.380] - Aaron Murray

This gentleman over here has got his display screen that's popping up and is able to show the information from the engine standpoint as an example. So this is where you can start taking that and start taking it one step further by using things like RFID, using AR and VR to pull up this information, you can really start evolving it. But this mobile strategy is kind of the first way we do it. And we like to do it from an adaptive standpoint as well. So the thing is, a person that's coming into a classroom, that person may take four days to learn how to do something, but another person may take only two hours to learn how to do that exact same thing. Another person may actually take even longer. So if you can really build it to an adaptive strategy, that allows a person to kind of engage in work the way that they need to, you're going to allow for a better success across the board.

[00:11:55.410] - Aaron Murray

So we function on a Self Directed training program. So again, a person can walk over to a specific area and based on maybe a beacon or a bluetooth device, an RFID, it will then trigger that specific material to display when that person needs it, as they need it as they go.

[00:12:13.500] - Aaron Murray

Now, the way that works is there's these sensors or AR tools that are available and a beacon that sends out a small wireless information. To be honest, you can actually experience these from a marketing standpoint today. If you were to download the Home Depot app and walk into any Home Depot store you can actually see is based on the location that you are walking around in the store, it'll actually ping you materials and information about where you are, so you can recognize here's the information for this part of the store, here's how you locate the information, here's how you get it. And this just simply is taking it from instead of from a marketing standpoint and utilizing it actually in a education style environment. Bluetooth doesn't have to be the only way to do that though, as well as you can also use information from like Augmented Reality. So Augmented Reality as you walk over to a specific device or a piece of equipment or anything like that, you can have it so that let's say this mobile devices you hold it up, it'll now populate or pull up that specific material using shapes, using geometric shapes on the screen or other things like that.

[00:13:14.500] - Aaron Murray

So using the sensors and AR, you can actually now give a better result, you can give them the true education that they need when they need it more of that just in time style strategy. Now, some of the things that have happened in AR from a head start parpoint, have really evolved and really done really well if you have the ability whereas maybe you're working on a manufacturing floor or you're working where things are more stationary, I am walking over to a specific station, you can really build out great Just-In-Time style training with these augmented glasses. So again their hands are free, they're able to work on these different pieces of equipment, but the AR tool set will then display that same information. But just on their eyes, their hands are not being taken up or their eyes aren't looking away because it's now overlaid over what they are currently doing. But what we've found unfortunate from the companies that we deal with, these glasses and these things are just from a cost perspective, is not there yet, and the availability of these things are just not there yet as well. So we use our augmented reality on mobile devices currently right now. So again, using that geometric shape to show up that information and display as we need it when it shows up. So for AR one of the things we're doing right now with a tractor company is a checklist, so again, they're utilizing this to be able to hold up their device to -- before they sell the piece of equipment to validate that this piece of equipment is ready to go.

[00:14:30.750] - Aaron Murray

Again, more of that just in time style strategy. I hold up their phone, it pulls up their device, it says are these tires look correct, does this look good? Are they in good condition? And you can validate it, so you're going through yes, no, this is correct, what is wrong? You can also utilize it so that again, the geometric shapes as you hold it up to a specific area, that geometric shape is saying, okay, here's this information I need it to display. So here is the fuel gauge. Here is the turn signal, here is that specific information as well. That other level from a Just-In-Time training strategy is also in Virtual Reality. Virtual reality is coming down in price substantially, the cost to develop has actually come down quite a bit as well, and there are a lot of companies that are really stepping up into that standpoint. I can tell you right now still it's still not 100% cost-effective, but for those companies that are spending the money or investing in it now are going to reap the benefits in the near future.

[00:15:22.500] - Aaron Murray

Here's an example actually of the folks from JLG.

[00:15:40.880] - Liz Fraley

I'm not hearing any sound.

[00:15:43.600] - Aaron Murray

Oh, you're not hearing any sound, my apologies. So basically what we're doing on that is that in that video format, it was just showing how to use these lift operators, you're required to get a certification in order to operate a lift or a telehandler, which is what they were showing on the screen there. And that certification unfortunately during Covid it was almost impossible, people couldn't go out and travel to be able to get these certifications or go on location to do that stuff. But they had their VR stuff set up and ready. So, again, people can come to a specific place, utilize a VR headset and then experience the actual training environment and actually see how it would work up, down, left and right to kind of give that overall workflow from a virtual standpoint. So it really allowed there are people to still get that education when they needed it and as they needed it, versus having to spend the cost of shipping somebody out or flying somebody out to a location to learn these type of certifications as well.

[00:16:41.310] - Aaron Murray

From a virtual reality standpoint, I can tell you right now the costs are coming down all the time this year, the folks at Oculus have really stepped it up and actually reduce the cost quite a bit and have made some really great tools on the stuff, about 150 bucks, and go up to about 700 dollars and allows you to really get some quality training and information from that standpoint. The thing is that you still have limitations of how to produce it, the actual development aspect of it. So unless you're going to hit masses or have something that's specific in an environment, it's just not going to be worth it from a cost perspective. I can give you an example, we have a company that does pavement structure, so they built a virtual reality training on how to build pavement training, so make sure that people are safe on how to use this pavement machine specifically. Now, for them, that was about a thousand people that they needed to be able to train and educate, and the cost of actually flying people around to get this specific education was astronomical. So they spent about $60,000 to build out the specific example. And in this example, those people were now able to be trained. Now the thing is, they own about 100 other pieces of equipment and they wouldn't be able to just simply do that across the board because the cost of developing each and every piece is just not there yet. But in the very near future, I do see that being the case.

[00:17:58.670] - Aaron Murray

To be honest, this is the last piece of what I like to talk about, which is the A.I Voice Assist tool, this is where I feel the training is going to be going in the very near future, it is also stuff that we're doing currently right now,  so I know most people have a Google home or Alexa in their house and most people have an iPhone, so Siri available as well. But there's also Mycroft A.I, which is an open-source voice assist toolset as well. We're currently using this for that hands-free environment on a digital screen. So we agree we were talking about earlier where you have somebody that's working on a car as an example and they're working on it, and they said okay well how do I change out this spark plug as an example? They say it instead of actually going and pulling out their phone, Google searching it, referencing it, then trying to hold their phone while they're trying to work on it as well.

[00:18:45.150] - Aaron Murray

You can have this up on the screen utilizing a TV set. TVs are becoming a very inexpensive cost, about 100 bucks, you can buy a decent-sized screen nowadays. You can plug in one of these Mycroft A.I, which is an open-source toolset, so the cost to develop and build that out is about $100, it's a Raspberry Pi tool that allows that information, I mean and then development and programing of the information, so you can just have text that displays and shows in that specific area allows that to happen as well. So you can really, really reduce your costs. Now, from that standpoint, I can give you some examples and showcase a little bit of an idea of what we've built utilizing the strategy and how we do that. The fine folks at AEM, which is the Association of Equipment Manufacturers started building out digital guides, so how do they get their safety material out to people instead of again, a book that they sell or distribute? How do they get out there when the person truly needs it?

[00:19:41.030] - Aaron Murray

And again, this is all built mobile-first, so it is designed with that smaller scale standpoint and then allows the person to then find what they're looking for and reference that material. Here's an example of an outboard water pump that we did for another company. This gives you a person, I need to know how to be able to assemble the water pump on this specific outboard motor in the marine industry. When I can go through here is, I've got a guided tour which gives me step by step instructions on here are the tools I can use, and if I click on this, it'll actually give me the information about the tool. But what it's really doing is it's giving me the walk-through and step by step of a video, step by step showing me how to disassemble and how to assemble the actual information. Now, the key here is, like we were talking about before, is okay you've given this information, they've gone through it, they've gone through the training. But you know, it's been six months. I haven't done this again, how do I get this answer?

[00:20:33.530] - Aaron Murray

The nice thing is now through this guide, they just simply open it back up into the guide. They can come back over here and they could search for specifically what they're looking for. So they can just simply type in "how do I" and they pull up the information boom, it jumps right to the material, so they don't have to go and reference and find the answers to everything they can just find the things when they need it again, more of that just in time kind of strategy. So all that information is available to them in a walk by -- step by step walk-through process. We also build on things like the way that we are actually designing the things like glossaries. So you can actually see things like this gives you an idea of okay what's a pump housing, here is the actual information about that or even to reference materials where you can actually pull up the specific manual, in this case, is what we did. So it'll now download that digital manual and it's now available for you can reference that material as well.

[00:21:21.480] - Aaron Murray

This kind of gives a high-level overview of those type of things, but there are some other tools that I do like to recommend that have nothing to do with Ken Cook whatsoever. So some of those tools is the Adapt Learning platform, this is an open-source tool set that anybody has access to. It's -- feel free to download it, check out the platform, and that's how we build most of our content. There's nothing special about it from a Ken Cook standpoint. It's just an open-source tool kit that we do provide feedback and information from developing high level of e-learning content. Inkling is another great tool as well. If anybody has never used this, it's a digital manual guide that allows you to build more of that interactive standpoint. Whereas if you don't want to use an open-source tool, but I'd really like something that's very easy and more user friendly and I'm willing to spend the money. This is a great tool to use that and folks like Taco Bell and McDonald's utilize this to train all their staff. So you'll see them with a $40, $50 tablet, learning how to use the steps of process for a fryer or how to assemble and build out that kind of content as well.

[00:22:19.500] - Aaron Murray

Another one that I recommend as well which we actually use on a regular basis. Again, we have no affiliation with PTC, but the folks over there have a tool called Chalk, which allows you use Augmented Reality to communicate back and forth information. So you'll basically have the ability of your on a device and another device. The camera displays the information, you can show it and then people can mark up that information as they go. And the last thing I strongly recommend to everybody especially since you don't have the ability possibly face to face with people right now is a toolset called Miro. It's a whiteboard tool which allows you to show the step-by-step process on how to build something instead of drawing it up on a whiteboard, it's a digital whiteboard and allows that simple access for everybody able to communicate and go through those same things. This is just an example of something we did for some folks that needed a check-in process for Covid-19 and go through those kind of functions, just kind of give us an idea where you can do drawings, information, data, and graphics to go along with it.

[00:23:15.870] - Aaron Murray

And that kind of is everything that I have to talk about today. Does anybody have any questions?

[00:23:22.560] - Liz Fraley

Now it's time to type in those questions if you haven't already, and while you do, here's a look at what's coming up. The TC Dojo Mastermind groups are monthly driven member discussion groups where attendees present their specific challenges to a group of their peers in a confidential, supportive environment, you can sign up at the TC Dojo website at mastermind.tcdojo.org. We know sometimes magic is just having the time to collaborate with someone who's been where you are.

[00:23:50.630] - Liz Fraley

Let's get to our questions. Mostly, I have a fascinating, expanded my perspective immensely. That's always true whenever I talk to you, I know that for sure.

[00:24:04.770] - Aaron Murray

Thank you.

[00:24:04.770] - Liz Fraley

Let's see what else, I do like how you addressed the six month later problem, right, you go in, you do your training, you've taken time off from your day job. You've done this intensive training and six months later you are like what am I supposed to do?

[00:24:18.330] - Aaron Murray

Yeah, but one of the things that we ended up discovering from a couple of our customers is that to give an example, the folks at Yamaha, they actually needed to -- they were training the four-day session, they were training almost an entire day on changing a timing belt on how to actually change the timing belt on a outboard motor. The problem with that was, is that when you talk to the people that are there and some of the people have been doing it for 20 years, they've changed one timing belt in their entire career. So the truth is that maybe five, six years before they actually need to know that answer on how to do that. So they're wasting a ton of time by building and changing it over to the structure you're now giving that guidance of here's the information, here's where you go to get it and then when you need it, here's the guidance to find that answer or solution and how do you remember all that stuff? It just gives you that that really nice way to guide it. So really, the education is about educating people on how to find the answer, not necessarily how to actually do the actual problem.

[00:25:14.940] - Liz Fraley

And that's a huge thing on its own actually, right. We all do that now there's things that you keep in mind and things that you don't, but knowing where to find it is the key.

[00:25:25.340] - Aaron Murray


[00:25:26.480] - Liz Fraley

Cool, all right.

[00:25:27.470] - Aaron Murray

Thank you for that question.

[00:25:28.610] - Liz Fraley

Yeah, search to step byte sized video works nicely for indexing into the video. How long did you say the video bytes were?

[00:25:35.930] - Aaron Murray

So I'm a big fan of -- there's definitely need for long-form and short-form. In that specific case, what we are showcasing there, there is a long-form format to give you the overview on how to do it the first time, and then everything's broken down to the small little bytes on the average, depending on the -- in that specific example I was showing for the outboard water pump, the longest video on that was 30 seconds.

[00:25:57.830] - Liz Fraley

Cool, all right, do your customers request conventional manuals in addition to  JIT training? We're challenged to create PDF's in addition to interactive content.

[00:26:12.050] - Aaron Murray

And to be honest with a lot of these digital tools, you have the ability of actually outputting a PDF version or a documented version of it as well. So the way that we actually build it out is with the both in mind. So we're designing a digital-first with the idea that it'll be in a publication tool as well though, because sometimes there's laws and legal reasons why you require to have that like possible printed book in your -- as an example, every car requires you to have an owner's manual inside there in a printed book in there, but, you know having a digital version is way more effective and more usable for most people. So designing a digital-first and then moving over to that standpoint. So it's just important to do that, so the answer is yes, we do get that quite a bit, yes.

[00:26:56.480] - Liz Fraley

All right, that looks like all of them, I think you blew people away. This is one of the things people need to think about. Oh, wait, here's a new one. Do you have data on efficacy?

[00:27:12.170] - Aaron Murray

Can you go into more detail about what you're looking for on that, because the answer is yes and no. So I am sorry I mean, I have data --

[00:27:23.180] - Liz Fraley

--success and satisfaction maybe.

[00:27:25.090] - Aaron Murray


[00:27:25.460] - Liz Fraley

Right with that?

[00:27:27.760] - Aaron Murray

So one of the ways that we build out all the content that's designed there is it's built with xAPI in the background, So we're actually tracking and seeing essentially all the use cases of it. So when a person plays a video, it actually is going to tell me how long a person played it, when did they abandon it, when did they use it, how many times they replayed it? It's given me all that data because that way it's going to help me improve the actual content development of the actual assets themselves.

[00:27:50.920] - Aaron Murray

Also whenever somebody types in the search or Google searches in the tools, it's giving me that data saying -- you know these are the things we couldn't answer when a person searched this was the thing they're searching for, so we know that from a customer standpoint, they don't love it when they type in something like, how do I do this? And it doesn't show up that answer. So we utilize that and say, OK, this is a negative experience, so we trigger that as a bad customer experience and then go back and say, based on this information, here's what we need to do and here's how we need to tag some of this additional information and update the content. So that's how we're doing it from a customer success standpoint and it's making sure we're evolving it and making sure people know that as well. So by utilizing the data reading report data and pushing it back there, it's been very positive. It will tell you at first it's very difficult for most people, so from a customer standpoint of let's say I'm now teaching people that have been facilitating for 20 years, now you have to do with this digital way. I can tell you that it's been negative up-front, but after six months to a year of them now doing it this new way and seeing the success of the strategies, it ends up being positive. So that's where I was trying to come across as it's a mixed bag there. Does that make sense?

[00:28:57.460] - Liz Fraley

Yes, excellent.

[00:28:58.930] - Aaron Murray


[00:29:00.940] - Liz Fraley

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